Reading Time: 37 minutes

This is a transcript of an interview by Rick Wiles of TruNews.com with Steven and Jana Ben Nun, Jewish Christians who are the webmasters of Israeli News Live. (I do not know or endorse everything they promote, especially anything dispensational.) They talk about subjects I haven’t covered yet on this website such as the influence of pharisaic Judaism’s influence on evangelical Christian leaders which has had a detrimental effect on churches, especially in America and English-speaking nations. They cover so-called plans of Zionists to eventually subjugate all non-Jews.

I haven’t covered the Zionist part of Satan’s conspiracy yet because I think some of it may be Jesuit disinformation to use the Jewish people as scapegoats and shift the blame of what the Jesuits themselves are doing. Some say the American government is owned and controlled by Israel and the Zionist elite. But I see far more Roman Catholics and members of Catholic societies like the Knights of Malta in the US government than Jews. And I believe the Roman Catholic Church corporation is far more powerful in the world than any Zionist organization. Nevertheless, it seems to be a well-documented fact according to what the people in the interview are saying that Hitler cooperated with Zionists! I believe that indicates a high level connection between Zionists and the Vatican. Christian J. Pinto of the NOISE OF THUNDER Radio Show believes there’s a link between the Jesuits and Islam as well. I think he may be right seeing that the Jesuits built an Islamic mosque at Georgetown University!

So who are the enemies of the Gospel and the true born-again believers in Jesus Christ? ALL of Satan’s people! That includes witches, Satanists, Luciferians, Freemasons, the Pope, the Jesuit Superior General, Jesuits, Cardinals, Bishops, some priests, Muslim extremists, false preachers, and Zionists. Some of them may be classified under the generic label of Illuminati. One thing is for sure: None of them accept the Bible as the Word of God which also means they don’t believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that we are saved only through Him. The Devil is using all of them to try to deceive and lead us astray. Jesus has our souls for eternity but we can become unfruitful for God’s Kingdom while on earth by listening to the wrong voices. Let’s not let that happen by sticking with what we know the Bible says!

The transcription is a bit condensed and not always word for word and with lots of editing. You can also listen to the entire conversation from the YouTube below the text. It was apparently filmed when Donald Trump was still president.

Transcription

Rick Wiles: Well, my guests today are known to many of you. They host a very popular program on YouTube called Israeli News Live. The co-hosts are a husband and wife team of Jewish believers in our Lord Jesus Christ. They are Jewish Christians, but they firmly reject Zionism. I’m talking about Steven and Jana Ben Nun.

And if you have never seen them, you are going to become one of their fans and you’ll be checking out their YouTube channel Israeli News Live.

Steven: We started off before it was Israeli News Live. We started off as a teaching ministry, but very pro-Zionist. I come from a Jewish background. Both my parents were Jews. They were non-practicing Jews. I had given my life to Christ when I was eight years old in an event when my mother visited a church with a friend. She never went back again.

Rick: And you were eight years old and you got saved on one visit to a church?

Steven: At one visit, exactly.

Rick: Wow. Somebody was preaching the Gospel that day.

Steven: They were. And you know, Rick, the funny thing is, when I was 40 years old, I went and moved to Israel at that time. And when I did, before I left, I went back to that little church. It was London Baptist Church in Casselbury, Alabama. We lived in Casselbury at the time. And my mother’s best friend, she went there just to visit with her there. But I left a note and they’d said the minister that had administered there, I think he’d passed away by them, but I just left a note at the church there saying, “I want to thank you for a minister that would still preach the Gospel and salvation of Jesus Christ. Because now 32 years later, I’m now taking the Gospel of Jesus Christ to my own people in Israel.”

And that’s kind of where things began for me. But still, though, even though I believe the Lord Jesus Christ is Savior, I was still very much a pro-Zionist type believer looking at the Scriptures more from the Scofield type glasses. And so even as we began from ministry into the news aspect of things to cover more things, we started Israeli News Live at that point there. And Israeli News Live was mainly looking at the geopolitical spectrum from more of a biblical aspect. And we really grew very rapidly in popularity with this program.

I survived a suicide bombing in Israel in 2004 by the grace of God. But as we built the ministry there, then things began to change. And my wife first began to notice a lot of things. And she had me read one book called The Holocaust Victims Accuse, which really was Jewish rabbis talking about what they went through during the Holocaust, and how it was the Zionist leaders that were turning their backs on them and allowing other Jews to go to the Holocaust camps and things like that. That really began to wake me up.

Rick: Did you read The Transfer Agreement by Edwin Black?

Steven: Yes. I also read that as well.

Rick: Was that an eye opener?

Jana: Yes, it indeed was because it proved to us that Hitler was actually Zionist, which was a total surprise that he co-operated with Zionist leaders.

Rick: Yes. Adolf Hitler worked with the Zionists. Would you say he was a Zionist?

Jana: Well, he worked with them.

Rick: He co-operated with them. He helped them.

Jana: Right. And they have a coin of commemoration.

Rick: Right. And so the early Zionists found a way to work with Adolf Hitler in the Third Reich. The Third Reich actually contributed millions of dollars to the Zionist movement to subsidize the Zionist infiltration of Palestine.

Jana: That’s right. We can say that Hitler helped to build the state of Israel.

Rick: Yes, he did. Yes, he did.

Steven: We first started bringing that information out, Rick, on our broadcast because the more I would get shocked, the more I would bring out. And of course, the Syrian conflict also was a contributing factor because as we investigated things from a news fact, we began to recognize all the inconsistencies with mainstream media. So that was also turning us. But when I first published about what was happening during the Holocaust with the Jewish people actually allowing the deaths of other Jewish people just so that they could have numbers in this, I had a good friend of mine who, his whole family, his background is Mossad in Israel. And he wrote me and he said, “Steven, you’ve got to let this go. That’s water under the bridge. I know it’s true. The documents are there. We know it’s true. It’s written by rabbis. We know all this is factual information.” But he said, “My own family actually helped finance the Stern Gang.

Rick: The Stern Gang (connected to Irgun) was a Jewish Zionist terrorist organization with Menachem Begin, which was responsible for blowing up the King David Hotel and murdering a lot of innocent Arabs. And he ended up becoming the prime minister.

Steven: Yes, he did. And oddly enough, you know, there were different things and my own past that would come to my mind that I had heard like when I lived in Israel in 2004, my roommate there was an Israeli soldier. He would come up. He was from Beersheva. He’d been injured in an accident. But he would tell me how they would target practice on Palestinians. And I specifically asked him, I said, “Iran, did you actually kill any?” He said, “I’ve killed three.” I don’t know if he was really ashamed of it or what it was, but he was confessing these things to me. As a believer in Jesus Christ, this bothered me, but I still suppressed those types of things.

Rick: Ben Gurion was quoted as saying, we saw the Palestinians as donkeys.

Steven: Oh, it’s worse than that, Rick. I mean, I also, because of being of a Jewish background, went deeper just searching for roots, even as a believer, I went in, I got more involved with the Chabad organization. I would visit rabbis and then build friendships with them. I actually became a member of the Chabad organization for more than 20 years.

I had business relationships with them because of the moving business we owned. We had a lot of relationships with the rabbis throughout South Florida, and Northwest Florida as well. And the deeper you get into the circles like this, the more you begin to learn, the way Jewish people actually think. Of course, living in Israel, you learn that as well. And as far as Goyim, a Gentile, they’re very much looked down upon, when you mention them, like a donkey. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve sat there with doctors and lawyers just being friends. And then they forget that I’m an actual believer. In some cases, they didn’t even know I was a believer. Maybe I didn’t say anything to them at the time. And they would say, “Steven, that’s just Gentiles. What are you worried about the Gentiles for? They’re going to be our slaves one day.” And things like this just always stuck in the back of my mind.

Rick: Is Zionism racist?

Steven: Yes, Zionism is definitely racist. But it doesn’t make all the Jewish people that way.

Rick: Zionism is based on racial superiority.

Steven: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Rick: So now, do they consider you, your critics, your enemies among the Zionists, are you an anti-Semitic Jew? Or are you a self-hating Jew? How do they label you?

Steven: I don’t get called anti-Semitic as far as being Jewish, but some people say you’re a self-hating Jew. It really depends on the one that is coming against me. I know that one of my sources for the Middle East there, which is, of course, Israeli. He’s actually said to me recently, he said, “You know, Steven, at one time we had hope for you to be able to come to Israel. I appreciate the fact you stand for Jesus. I have respect for that. But you’ve really kind of peeved off everybody in the Israeli government. So that’s probably out the door completely now.” And that’s because of the bold stance we take.

Rick: So if a person is a Gentile, non-Jew, and they criticize Zionism, not Jewish people, if they criticize Zionism, then they get labeled as anti-Semitic. But if a Jew criticizes Zionism, he or she is labeled as a self-hating Jew. That’s the way this game works?

Steven: Exactly how it works. And anti-Semitism is a propaganda. That’s all it really is.

Rick: Well, there’s no Semitic race. There are only Semitic languages. There are about 300 Semitic languages. Hebrew is one of them. But there’s no Semitic race. In fact, there’s only one race. And if you want to be theologically correct, there are two races. Saved and unsaved. The human race is either saved by Jesus Christ or they’re unsaved. And those are the two groups. The rest of the skin color, all that kind of stuff, doesn’t matter.

Jana: I’m originally from East Europe for my Czechoslovakia. And I came to Christ in 2010. My background is that I’m from a kind of mixed household. My mother was not Jewish. She was a Gentile. So in Israel, they consider me a Gentile. They don’t consider people whose father is a Jew. They don’t consider them Jewish. So I am labeled often as anti-Semitic when I speak out.

Rick: He’s a self-heating Jew and you’re anti-Semitic.

Jana: That’s right. And all because we just bring to light the teachings of Judaism, which, while in Israel of course, when you’re there you start noticing things. But because of our Zionist approach to prophecy and to the Bible in general, and we were in a circle of Zionist Christians, I started to research a lot, Jewish roots and Jewishness. And I wanted to know what it is that Judaism is about. What does Judaism believe? So I started to study their writings. Their writings include Talmud, Zohar, Kabbalah, Shulchan Aruch which is their Jewish law. Or it’s called Halakha. And I started to expand on, and listen to a lot of teachings by rabbis. I would open up a lot of videos that Rabbi would specifically teach on Halakha. And on Talmud and explain certain things. And I started to see that there is a huge discrepancy between Christianity and Judaism. That Christianity has absolutely nothing to do with Judaism. Judeo-Christianity, as it is often referred to, is an oxymoron statement. They’re diametrically opposed to each other. And I started to see that basically they actually are the enemies of Christianity.

Rick: Judaism is not biblical even by Old Testament standards. God did not create Judaism.

Jana: Exactly. Judaism, as we know it today, is basically Phariseeism. Judaism is not true faith. It’s nothing that God has given.

Rick: It’s what Jesus condemned!

Jana: Exactly. So I started to notice that we have the same battles today as first-century Christians, as apostles. And that our enemies are the same enemies as the enemies of Jesus. And it was the Pharisees with their oral law. You see a lot of Christians today, especially in Zionist circles. They think that Judaism is about the Old Testament. Judaism is just the Old Testament. All they believe, the Jews, they just believe the Moses law and they practice the law of Moses. They have 613 commandments. Most of these Christians are not familiar with the Talmud, Zohar and Kabbalah and what they are all about. So I started to study what they are about and what the Talmud teaches. And I noticed that there is actually a plan. There is a plot. And there’s a plot against Christianity. And I could not logically understand why would Christian leaders form friendships with Jewish rabbis.

Rick: Take the next several minutes and summarize what is this plan that you’ve discerned.

Jana: Well, first, let me bring you one of the books here, The Secret Doctrine in Israel by Waite. And what it explains is the basically secret doctrine of the Zohar, what is behind Zohar. And you have to understand that the soul of the Talmud is Zohar. And the soul of Zohar is Kabbalah, the occultism or sorcery as I refer to it. Now, this particular book doesn’t speak against it. It only explains what it is, what the secret doctrine is. Here in the preface, it actually speaks of the secret tradition in Israel together with some account of the manner in which it influenced Christian scholarship in Europe during the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries. It seems like this is a plot that is not new. It has been pre-planned long, long ago.

Rick: They’ve been infiltrating Christian churches and universities and organizations for centuries to change the Gospel.

Jana: To change the Gospel and completely put a virus in Christianity, I call that a virus, the leaven of the Pharisees. And today’s Christianity, especially in America, has a virus. And we have to identify what the virus is. But it’s basically the same problem as Apostle Paul had. It’s judaizing, judaizing of Christianity. But they also brought in occultic practices.

But anyway, as I was studying The Secret Doctrine in Israel, I came to really shocking information. It’s not pretty. I don’t really recommend that people who are not strong in faith. It’s a book for the purpose of researching what the doctrine of actual Kabbalah, Zohar and Talmud is, and what Judaism is about because once you understand what Judaism is about, you start understanding that these bridges that Christian ministers are making with the Pharisees or rabbis today, those are very dangerous bridges.

And on one side, it’s always Christians that submit to the Jews. It’s always Christians that have to agree not to preach Jesus to Jews. You see, the Jews, they don’t compromise. They will never compromise what they believe. But the Christians are ready to compromise. And why? Because they have wolves for teachers who have actually made bridges with the Pharisees, the enemy of Christ.

But in this particular book, I just want to read you a little bit about what got me understanding what the plot is against Christianity. It says here, according to the Midrash Talpigoth, the Messiah will bring eternal peace, which of course was understood by the Israelites as peace for Israel. Plus, that which may follow extermination for all who did not enter by conversion into the house of Jacob. So basically what they teach is that if Gentiles or Christians do not attach themselves to the Jews, they will be exterminated.

And of course, we are well known for our Noahide laws. So then you go to Talmud and you start reading what is the plan for Gentiles. You see, Judaism is a two-tier system. Judaism puts the wall of partition back. It’s the Jews and non-Jews. According to Judaism, non-Jews are a different species. They are humans, but they are not at the level of the Jews. Jews are supposedly divine. They are the light of the world. They are the chosen. They have the life of Hashem inside of them. That’s the way they explain the life of God inside. And the Gentiles, they can never achieve it. They are different species. They are on an animalistic level. And the only way for Gentiles to make it, to the world to come, is to attach themselves to the Jews. And how do they do that? Well, through the Noahide laws, seven Noahide laws.

Rick: What percentage of Jews in the world believe that trash?

Steven: I did a little bit of research on it because I know that when we got attacked for bringing out the Noahide laws, it was suggested that only a small percentage, about 2% of radical Jews in Israel actually believed this. But that’s the furthest thing from the truth. But even if it were a small percentage, you have to keep in mind the percentage that controls the world governments. But just for an example, 5% of Jews all over the world globally are Hasidic, actually Hasidic, which are all Talmudists.

But the number continues to go up because if you go outside the Hasidic, then we have what we call Orthodox, or Ultra-Orthodox. That makes up about 30% of all the Jews worldwide. So about 30% of the Jews worldwide are hardcore, and maybe 15% worldwide, we would say are hardcore Talmudist, Zoharis, Kabbalist, whereas the other 15% out of that total of 30% worldwide also adhere to it, but they’re not hardcore.

But nonetheless, at least 30% of all Jews hold the Talmud as a sacred writing as the oral law of God, and it’s held in higher regard than the Bible itself. I know that some will try to play that down and say that’s not true, but that is totally false. It is known by any Orthodox Jew that the Talmud has more prominence than that of Moses or the prophets themselves.

Rick: What are some of the more shocking statements in the Talmud?

Steven: The shocking statements? There are many. Let me kind of clarify some of these ones because they do get kind of misquoted a little bit, but it still holds true. For example, some people try to say that the Talmud condones sexual relations or pedophilia between a man and a boy as long as he is under nine years of age. Then it’s not considered homosexuality. It doesn’t really condone it, but what it does is it minimizes the offense. So they write in the Talmud that if the boy is under nine years of age, then it’s not considered a homosexual act. That’s actually written in the Talmud. But the reason why they do this is because they know that the law of Moses would command that if you have a homosexuality, then that person is to be stoned. So they don’t want the rabbis to be guilty if they end up getting caught. So they minimize it.

The same thing with a little girl if is she is under the age of three years old, they minimize it. And it depends on the rabbi, it depends on whether it’s nine years old or three years old in the Talmud, would consider no different than if the girl would be defiled as if you poked her in her eye. In other words, it’ll just heal back. It’s no big deal.

Of course, Jesus Himself, He’s written about, they don’t use His name. They normally use Balaam when it’s written in the Talmud, but I can literally show you right in the Talmud, right in the notes where it says on there that Balaam is a substitute in coded language in the Talmud for Jesus. And they say that He is in hell and boiling in feces. Those are some of the more bold things that a lot of people are more aware of. But there are tons of things that people just would never quite like.

Rick: Why are there so many American evangelical Zionists, pastors and Bible teachers, prophecy teachers, why are there so many of them studying the Talmud?

Steven: This is the design. What I see, sometimes I wonder, Rick, if it’s just they’re going in, maybe with good intentions, maybe they’re excited, they’re wanting to try to get closer to the Jewish people. But then there are others that are clearly, they are involved in this for an agenda to bring about an ecumenical movement that is going to put Christianity, the Christian people underneath Talmudic rabbis. This is my biggest fear. And this is, in fact, even today, this is what is circling in the pulpits today, many times unbeknownst to the followers here, they’re being taught Talmudic and Zohar prophecies and the people have no idea that this is what they’re being taught.

Rick: I’m hearing the word gematria appearing on so-called Christian TV, it’s just religious TV. Most Christian TV is now Jewish TV. You don’t hear Christianity anymore. But I’m hearing the word gematria. I’m hearing an exaltation of numbers, not the Book of Numbers, but that there’s special revelation in knowing the number of value of words in the Bible and the Bible codes and so forth.

I don’t watch a lot of religious TV. I haven’t watched it in years because you can catch an STD watching religious television, a Spiritually Transmitted Doctrine. And so I don’t want one to get in my brain because evangelical Zionism is spiritual syphilis and it will cause brain damage, it will cause heart damage. So I’m very careful about watching religious television. But I’m seeing and I’m hearing these so-called Christians, I don’t think they’re Christians. I think if they ever were, they’ve left the faith, they’ve been Judaized, they’ve departed from the Christian faith.

There’s a pastor down in North Texas, just south of Dallas Fort Worth, that is running a gematria church. And he’s on these television networks, he’s got a weekly show. He’s promoting gematria. He’s open about it. Is gematria from God?

Jana: No, it’s not Holy Spirit.

Steven: Gematria to begin with, of course, it’s numerology, like tarot cards. It’s really a shame that this has actually entered into the Church to begin with. But gematria, the numeric value is borrowed from the Greeks. The Greeks borrowed it from the Egyptians. Hebrews never had this originally. And this is what a lot of people are totally forgetting. Of course, pastors are becoming more like, as the scripture describes them, hirelings. They don’t care about the flock whatsoever. And this numerology, whether it be through Bible codes, whether it be through the numeric value, ends up making havoc of the Word of God. And this is the reason why we have in Judaism, for example, they are looking for the Messiah to come. But they don’t tell you, well, they’re becoming more open. They call it the Nachash Moshiach, which is the serpent Messiah, is what they’re looking for. And they say that the word serpent nachash and moshiach has the same gematric value. That should be the first sign that this is demonic in the first place. Just like when they give you Trump’s last name also having that same equivalent. Well, if you want to go by Gamatria, you could also say that his last name means toilet as well. This is how ridiculous it is. There are no longer people looking for the way God said He reveals Himself.

Rick: When I came out of TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network) in 1998, God called me out to start this work. I was introduced to the Bible codes. It was the late Yachav Ramsal, who was a Messianic believer, Messianic Christian. Really nice man. I had many conversations with Yachav Ramsal. He had a sweet spirit, a very nice man. But he was a big promoter of the Bible codes. And so I had a CD that came from Israel, and he told me, rabbis have developed this. And you can search the Bible codes as this is presented by the rabbis. And this was all new to me. And I had never heard of such things. When I would be working with it on my computer, my wife Susan would say, “Oh, I see you got your Ouija board up there and operating it.” And I’d go, “It’s not a Ouija board. I got this from Israel. Rabbis endorsed this.” And Susan would say, “That’s a Jewish Ouija board.” She was right. I was wrong.

But there was a day that the Holy Spirit convicted me and said, “Put that away. Don’t touch it again.” And what the Lord told me was, that’s divination. And I realized that the people who were using this CD from Israel, and I’m talking about the Evangelical Zionists in America that were buying these CDs in Israel from the rabbis, they were trying to predict the future. And I was part of a little network of Evangelical Zionists that were e-mailing back and forth, they had message boards about prophetic things that were going to happen in the future. They found it in the Bible codes. It was just divination. They’re trying to divine the future. And God forbids it.

But how was I introduced to it? By a Jewish man who said he was a believer. And that’s what I’m trying to say to you, who, those of you watching me, and you’re playing around with Jewish roots and Hebrew roots and all the stuff, you’re being indoctrinated. They’re leading you away from the historic Christian faith. They’re leading you away from Jesus Christ to another Messiah. And it’s incremental, it’s slow, it’s step by step. But you need to know that it is a dangerous walk that you’re on. Run from Evangelical Zionism. Run from the Hebrew roots movement. Run, run from the Zohar. Run from all this stuff as fast as you can. It’s dangerous.

Steven: It’s very dangerous, Rick. And the thing is, it appears innocent in the beginning. Myself, I had the same thing when it was popular. I had the little program. But the one thing that really caught my attention on it early on was the fact, the next thing I knew I was spending so many hours a day just consuming my time. My thought was, if I spend this much time in prayer and studying the Word of God, how much more? Because God never promised to reveal Himself through gematria. But as He said to Peter, flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father, which is in heaven has revealed this to you, and upon this rock I’ll build my church.

So revelation of Him, of His Word, and of course we know He deals with dreams and visions, I don’t like to go overboard in that area either, but the thing is, those were the biblical principles that were laid down for us. It wasn’t gematria. It wasn’t Kabbalah. It wasn’t all these things as right now we have in Israel. We have teachers coming out who are Jewish teaching Christians, and the Christians are gobbling this up like eating out of a garbage can. Gobbling this up, wanting to know more because they’re telling them, they’re teaching them the deeper meanings because of the Kabbalah, which is basically gematria, putting all this numeric value to what this revelation means based on the numerology, and it’s horrible.

Rick: During our earlier conversation in my office, when we were talking about I think it was The Secret Doctrine in Israel, is that the book that you said that there was a 200-year-old prophecy? Or is it another book?

Jana: It is a different book. There is a Jewish author Rabbi Joel Bakst, who is the author of a two-volume book, it’s called “The Josephic Messiah Sacred Serpent”, and I think it has three names. (Full name of the book: The Secret Doctrine of the Gaon of Vilna Volume II: The Josephic Messiah, Leviathan, Metatron and the Sacred Serpent.) They are sourcing it from a 200-year-old book called “Kol HaTor The Voice of the Turtledove”. In that particular book, Rabbi Goud Vilna (I’m not sure of the spelling) had discovered the code or he was able to get a revelation, as they say, of the mystery of Kabbalah. They have predicted in that book, they said that at the end times, the messianic times, a figure like Cyrus shall appear again. So all of these Cyrus’ prophecies…

Rick: That was like over 200 years ago? That a Cyrus figure would appear? What would this Cyrus do?

Jana: Well, in a Jewish mind, they have not only one Messiah, like Christians, we have Jesus Christ as the one and the only Messiah. They have two Messiahs, one is a Messiah Ben-Joseph, and one is Messiah Ben-David. The Messiah Ben-Joseph can be anybody, whether Jew or a Gentile, it can be an Edomite according to them, a Gentile, but that Gentile has to do good for Israel and move Israel towards its final redemption.

According to Jewish doctrine, Messiah Ben-Joseph can be either a Jew or a Gentile who helps Israel in their redemption process, who is doing anything. All the good things for Israel, so Israel can come to a place where they rule the world.

Steven: Well, you have two different points on that. You have the Mashiach ben Yosef and Mashiach ben David. And one brings about Israel to redemption, but the other brings it about through war. Some believe that Trump could be possibly the David Messiah and that Netanyahu could be the Joseph, which brings about the war. Or vice versa, forgetting which ones are which, and there are all kinds of beliefs out there like this.

Rick: Well, it may make it difficult for Trump to be the war, Messiah, because the day the U.S. Senate voted to limit his powers to start a war with Iran. I’m surprised that that passed the Senate today. So you know what they’re going to have to do now? They need a Gulf of Tonkin incident. They need a U.S.S. Liberty incident. They got to do something, get around that Senate vote.

Jana: Well, they consider Trump a Ben-Joseph Messiah for one reason. He has moved the American embassy to Jerusalem. There is a plan that all nations will move their embassies to Jerusalem. And then also he gave them Golan, and he’s supporting their occupation of the land.

Rick: Are there Kabbalah wizards pumping this stuff into Donald Trump’s head? Are they just making it up and telling him, “Hey, we have prophecies about Cyrus and the Messiah! It’s you! We’ve come to this conclusion. It’s you!” Are they making this stuff up?

Jana: You know, I don’t see the heart. I don’t know if he’s willingly part of that, or if they are really putting this into his head. So I don’t know what the truth is.

Rick: We know that they’re saying it to him. We get recordings of them saying, you’re the Messiah. You’re in gematria.

Jana: Now in Judaism, Ben-Joseph can be several people. Every generation had Messiah Ben-Joseph according to Jews. So when they speak of Messiah, you have to be really careful to understand what they mean. Because, of course, then they have the Messiah, the final Messiah, the Ben-Dovid Messiah. And that one will be…

Rick: So there’s three?

Jana: That one will be a sacred serpent.

Rick: A snake?

Jana: A snake.

Rick: They’re expecting a snake Messiah?

Steven: Well, Rabbi Laitman is a prominent Jewish philosopher. He’s one of course is taught by the Rabbi Goan that Jana was talking about already. But Rabbi Laitman really promotes the idea very openly that the serpent in the Garden of Eden was actually the helper of mankind! And of course, he writes about the sacred serpent, or the holy serpent he’s even called, which they believe will be the last Messiah that brings about redemption. And so, I mean, always think about how Jesus says in Matthew, that you’re of your father, the devil, or he says you’re a generation of vipers. You know, he’s already telling you. But yet, when we see this, then we see that they’re looking for a serpent Messiah. I mean, it’s just strange the way they think.

Jana: According to the book by Joel Bakst, “The Josephic Messiah, Leviathan, Metatron and the Sacred Serpent,” in the second volume, he’s describing the serpent that was in the Garden of Eden. And he’s describing him as Androgynous AI. And this is basically who their final Messiah is. They’re bringing down their sacred serpent. He’s male-female in one body, and AI. Because Kabbalah is closely connected with technology. And in their books and writings, they’re actually admitting they’re going to bring their final Messiah through technology. Technology is connected to Kabbalah so closely that basically Kabbalah is technology. It’s occultic. And they’re specifically talking about the sacred serpent that was in the Garden of Eden. They’re describing him in this particular book. And he is an Androgynous Ai. And this is their Messiah.

Rick: His name is Lucifer.

Steven: Yes. And you know, Rick, this is one of the things we were talking about during lunchtime today is that one of the sources I have in Israel that is heavily involved in Israeli intelligence shared deeply with me how that one particular company, which he could not name to me so that you won’t ever find it on any stock exchange, etc., that they’re working with as he called it, “entities with a thousand IQ.”

Rick: They’re working with entities? Corporate or alien?

Steven: He’s referring to alien. In fact, when he spoke to the man that owns the company because they socialize together, he expressed to him that when he asked, “Are they part of a government?” He said, “They’re more powerful than any government on the planet.” But they were working, looking for certain individuals with a certain DNA background that they could cross the AI technology with this DNA, the DNA of these individuals.

Rick: Are the Nephilim here?

Steven: He actually told me that they used people who had DNA that would match the Nephilim DNA to be able to do that.

Rick: I believe they are. They’re the offspring of fallen angels and humans.

Steven: We know that Ezra clearly tells us that the Levitical priesthood had mingled their seed according to the Book of Ezra chapter 9. It’s written plainly in the Book of Numbers that Anak, his father, was not Nephlilim, but his father was in the Falling. They don’t put the vowel points in the right place. There’s no extra yod actually used in the spelling. In the same paragraph when it speaks of Anak’s sons, they are the sons of his sons, but they are called Nephilim. So, therefore, somehow or another, they were involved in some very witchcraft type of activities as Joshua had warned, and Moses had warned the children of Israel not to get involved in those types of activities. So it makes you wonder.

Rick: It’s my belief that there was an advanced civilization on the planet before Noah’s Great Flood. And we had a one-world government. There were no nations. Nations did not exist until after the Flood. So there were no nations on the planet before the Flood. And I believe Satan ruled the world after the fall of Adam and Eve. Satan was the God of this world. He ruled this world. I believe that there was an advanced human civilization here. And God reached a point where he said, I regret ever making these people. I’m just going to wipe them off the face of the earth. Everything’s going to die. He saved Noah and his family. And then one of Noah’s descendants, Nimrod, who was a great hunter, and some people believe he was a hunter of men, Nimrod embarked on building Babylon, building a tower to reach heaven. His motive, his plan was to overthrow God. And I believe what he was doing was saying, I think he heard Noah, his great grandfather. I believe he heard with his own ears Noah telling the stories of what existed on the other side of the Flood. And I believe Nimrod said, I want that back. I want that. I want that world. I want that civilization. And this God, this God is what took it away from us and destroyed the world as we’ve known it. And I’m going to build a tower. I’m going to go into heaven. I’m going to overthrow this God. And then man will build this civilization again and we will serve Lucifer again. I believe that’s what that was all about. That’s why God broke up the languages, gave people various languages, scattered them around the earth, and created the nations to break up the ability of mankind to unite and accomplish anything. Because God said, because their language is one they can do anything.

Well, through computer language, through binary language, mankind is coming back to one language. And gaining that ability to do almost anything. And I believe what is taking place right now is that the new Nimrods are saying, “We are going to rebuild the pre-Flood civilization. And we’re going to prove to this God, we don’t need him, we don’t fear him, we don’t have to obey him. We will in the end, we will win. We will conquer him.” And that’s the clash that is coming right now. You’re either on that side or you’re on the side of the kingdom of heaven. There’s no middle ground. And you have to choose which side that you’re on. Do you see anything like that in the writings of Zohar, Talmud, or anything like that?

Jana: Well, in the Zohar, Talmud, and Kabbalah, the entire thing is the separation of people to Israelitic and non-Israelitic according to the book called Jewish Utopia. Now, they are building their own kingdom. It’s the Jewish earthly kingdom with headquarters in Jerusalem where their AI Messiah will be, and they’re going to rule the world through law. It will be international, one law. One religion, basically, Luciferian religion. So, yes, in the Talmud, this is the Jewish earthly kingdom. This is why Zionist Christianity has embraced chiliasm (The doctrine stating that Jesus will reign on earth for 1,000 years) which is a focus on an earthly millennial kingdom. And this is how Jews and Christians are getting together. And Christians are so deceived thinking that they are working for a good thing, for the Jews. Like they’re helping the Jews. The Jews are supposed to get this kingdom. Yet this is a Zoharic doctrine and it does not have a good intention.

As I said, they want to rule the world. They want to get the Gentile riches and they want to rule the Gentiles. They don’t consider Gentiles fully human beings. And in fact, as an end game, they have this strange doctrine, Adam Kadmon doctrine which Adam Kadmon originally was, according to Zohar and Talmud, he was androgynous. He was male and female in one body. And this is why you see this transgender movement today. And there are laws, very serious laws, getting passed in Alberta, Canada.

Rick: Is Zionism behind the transgender movement?

Jana: Personally, I don’t think Zionist Christians are aware of this. Yes, it gets its origin in Zionism and it gets its origin in the Talmud, Zohar, and Kabbalah. It’s a Kabbalistic doctrine of Adam Kadmon. They have this doctrine called Tikkun Olam, repairing the world. So how do they want to repair the world? They want to bring it to the original. Who was the original Adam? He was androgynous. So now they’re putting specific things in food and drink. And basically, their end game is to make humans on earth that will survive. Whatever it is they’re bringing, androgynous, the transgender agenda.

Rick: What they’re really trying to do is undo God’s creation. They are at odds with the Creator. Jesus told the Pharisees, your father is the Devil. Was that literal? Was he saying, “Hey, you guys are really bad. Your old man is the Devil.” Or was he saying, “Your father really is Satan. You’re demonic.”

Steven: When I look at that, I look at that in a two-fold purpose there. Because at one point He actually says, “I know that you’re Abraham’s seed. But you don’t believe what I’m telling you.” In my opinion, it’s like a hybridization is what it is. Half, maybe 50% of them, Satan is their father, the other half is not. But when I say that, I can look at this from a scriptural aspect. Just like when they mingled the seed. And by the way, the seed was not mingled with the Babylonians. It was mingled with the Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites. Which we know had a Nephilim bloodline according to the Scripture. But when they had mingled the seed there, this is where, in my opinion, this is why Jesus put that label on him. In fact, he goes on to say that he puts the blood shed all the way back to Abel on the Pharisees. But yet we know the Pharisees did not exist back during the times of Adam and Eve. So there must be some type of connection. Whether it’s spiritual, whether it’s a physical bloodline, it’s very difficult to say absolutely. But it doesn’t mean that every Pharisee is bad because we saw Paul come out. He was a Pharisee. We see Nicodemus coming to Jesus by night.

But there’s one Scripture that really sticks out in my mind that I used to totally have messed up. And that was Malachi chapter 4. When it says in there, and we know it’s speaking about the final judgment, when he says your day will come that will burn as an oven and shall leave them neither root nor branch. And I used to think, wow, what a fire! It’s going to burn up their legs and burn off their arms and then they’re going to drop dead. But it’s not speaking of that. It’s just like Christ says, I am divine. You are the branches. He is the root. He is the root of Jesse. Therefore he is our root. We are the branches and Gentiles are grafted into him. In the case of what Malachi is speaking about, I believe he’s talking about the Nephilim bloodline right there. It leaves them neither root, which would be Satan. And those that were grafted into Satan through these perversions that the Jews got into in their idolatry back in the days, even with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. Those are the branches from that tree. And this is where we see that come in.

But I know there is a big debate over whether or not is it a literal seed line, is it a spiritual seed line, but I know in the end we’ll know. But Jesus did say, by their fruit you shall know them. And of course, a tree, a branch, even if it’s grafted in, can only bear the fruit of whatever the root is.

Rick: Did Jesus Christ abolish Judaism? Did God destroy it in 70 AD?

Steven: There’s no doubt about it. I mean even when we look in the Scriptures what Paul writes, he came as the Melchizedek priesthood. And oddly enough, this is what’s really strange. If you look at the Qumran writings (Dead Sea Scrolls), they literally believed in a Melchizedek priesthood that would come. They believed that the Messiah would come. I don’t agree with the doctrine of the Qumranite community. But I thought it was interesting that they believed that when the Messiah comes, he would be Melchizedek coming on the earth, and that that would be the Sukkah, which is the Hebrew term for the tent or the tabernacle for Yom Sikot or the Feast of Tabernacles. And that you would have to enter into Him, into that Sukkah, or as we would notice Christians today, you have to enter into Christ. And I thought how close those people were to recognizing who the Messiah would be if they really believed that Jesus was the Messiah.

So in answering that question, yes, the Old Testament, the Old Law, as I’ve always put it, that law was, as we read the Old Testament, the Levitical Law, this was what was enmity between God and man. This was the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and that had to be done away with in order to partake from the tree of life, which is Christ. He’s life, not law.

Rick: Almighty God destroyed the Temple in 70 AD. He destroyed the rituals, the sacrifices, and everything associated with Judaism. He destroyed it. It wasn’t just a minor judgment on it. It was the divine destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, exactly what Jesus said, every stone of this Temple is coming down. God judged it. Jesus Christ is the Temple. He is our Temple. The entire system was obliterated. The judgment of God came upon the Jewish people for murdering, crucifying the Son of God. They were dispersed around the world. They said, let his blood be upon us. And the only way to get out from under that curse is to repent and believe on the name of Jesus Christ. That’s it. That’s the only way to get out of that curse.

The Jewish people were under the curse of Deuteronomy 28. All the curses are right there. If you violate this covenant, this is what happens. They violated it over and over and over and over. All those curses are on them. Now for the whole human race, we’re all under the curse of sin and death that came upon Adam and Eve. We’re all under it. The only way out of these curses is repentance and belief on the name of Jesus Christ as Messiah.

We are witnessing this in our lifetime. And this is, it’s taken 2,000 years, 1900 and some years for this to take place. In 1948, a group of Zionists said, we will defy Almighty God.
We will rebuild what he destroyed.
We will rebuild the Temple that he destroyed.
We will rebuild Babylon. We will make Jerusalem the new Babylon.
We will build a tower, technology. We will defy that God.
And what is taking place right now with the so-called State of Israel? It is not of God. It is from the pit of hell. It is in direct rebellion against God. If the Jews want to be in alignment with God, they will believe on the name of Jesus Christ. They will be baptized into His Church. Apart from that, they’re in rebellion. But the people that are building this Zionist empire are in direct defiance of Almighty God. Most Jews in the world are just outside of God’s kingdom now. But the ones that are building the Zionist empire, they are in active, conscious rebellion against God. They seek to rebuild that which God himself destroyed. And they’re doing it with Lucifer.

And the evangelical Zionists that are being sucked into this thing, they’re working with Lucifer. And they don’t even know it. I think a lot of them do know it. I think at the top a lot of these evangelicals Zionists are just Freemasons. They’re secret closet Freemasons because you’ve got this Masonic Kabbalah alliance which is all rooted in Babylonian secret knowledge.

Jana: Yes, you said it beautifully, Rick. You said it perfectly. And I would like to tell people several things here. We are not anti-Semites. I am here with you. You love the Jewish people. My husband is Jewish, what we call Jewish. And you love him because he’s your brother. You love the Jews enough that you give them the Gospel. Because who loves the Jew, that person shall speak the Gospel to the Jewish people so they can come out and have everlasting life and they can come to the true Messiah away from the doctrines of their Pharisees. They’re under deception and they’re in the grasp of their Pharisaic religion. And we need to help them to come out. So the true people who truly love the Jewish people will understand that we have to bring the true real pure Gospel to the Jews. And Zionist Christians are not doing it.

That was one problem we had when we were in Zionist Christianity. My problem was that there was a huge move not to preach Jesus to Jews. In fact, they agree not to do it and they honor the bridges that they form. They agree that the Christians should submit themselves to Jews and they agree not to give the Gospel to the Jews. It’s prohibited to speak the name of Jesus in front of Jews.

Rick: You told me something today I’d never heard of. You said that there is a network in America of what is called kosher pastors. There’s an actual website of a man who calls himself a kosher pastor. And I don’t know whether he’s part of this network that you’re talking about. But that’s what he calls himself. He’s the kosher pastor. There’s the satanic star of David and the Kosher, the Christian cross and pastor. You can’t combine the two. They’re opposites. The star of David is demonic. It’s Kabbalah. It was never associated with King David. But take a few minutes and talk about this network of kosher churches. Kosher, what does this mean?

Jana: Okay, I just spent Saturday at our conference here. I met our sister in Christ, one sister in Christ who was involved with a group that is taught by Isaac Shapiro who is heavily involved with Mark Biltz, Congregation of El Shaddai Ministries. And they are bringing some kind of a new Gospel all over the churches, all over Latin America. They’re flying all over the world, even France, even Europe and everywhere. And they have this code name for the pastors, kosher pastor. And who is the kosher pastor? Now I don’t know if the website that you just showed, if that’s theirs, that’s just something we just looked up and found. So I have to research. But who is the kosher pastor? Well, they have these thirteen commandments or thirteen declarations that they are circulating in churches, and pastors are signing on to these declarations. And when they sign, they become a kosher pastor.

Now, I didn’t bring it with me or we should have kind of looked for it before we came here. Among the thirteen declarations, I can tell you two by memory. One is not to preach Jesus to Jews.

Rick: These pastors are signing this declaration. They will not preach Jesus Christ to Jews?

Jana: Yes. The Jews do not need to become Christians. They already are in the covenant and it is prohibited to preach Jesus to Jews.

Rick: That’s what John Hagee teaches.

Jana: Right. The last one, the number thirteen, is so funny, that it’s number thirteen because thirteen has a great significance in occultic numbers. But it asks for, it says that any gentile, even if needed, will have to put his or her life for any Jew. And you hear, well, any Jew, just because somebody is a Jew, that they are signing that he would give up his life for a Jew. For any Jew. Only for the reason that person is a Jew. By DNA.

Rick: Do you have any idea how many pastors have signed this declaration? Last time I checked it was over 250, but now they are growing.

Steven: They do make it public, Rick. And you know, the reason for all this movement and what’s really causing Christians to fall for this is misinterpretations of biblical prophecy or prophecy that have been fulfilled. And Zachariah 8:23 is one of the most important ones that they are using because they are saying that the Gentiles are going to take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew.

Starting with verse 22

Zechariah 8:22  Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.
23  Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Now, what they do, Rick, is they tell the people that this is showing you, they’re putting this as a future prophecy. And I used to believe it was a future prophecy as well when I was a Zionist and used to try to figure out, okay, how is this going to be fulfilled? And it never made sense to me because I’m thinking, you know, well, what would we want to take the hold of a skirt of a Jew when Jewish people are in Judaism, they’re in Talmudism. Alright, so I thought, okay, well, maybe this is about the two witnesses or something like that. I would just try to come up with a logical explanation for this. It wasn’t until God began to open our eyes to the false teachings of Zionism that we went back and I prayerfully went and started to research the Scriptures. And on this particular one, we have a good friend of ours named Jennifer. She had told my wife, she said, you should ask Steve. Look, he knows Hebrew. It’s a singular word. It’s not a plural word. But yet people like Isaac Shapiro, Mark Biltz, these guys here, they’re teaching this is a plural. So therefore the Gentiles are going to take hold of the Jewish nation, the Jewish rabbis, and they go underneath the Talmudic rabbis until the Messiah comes and resolves everything.

So I went and I began to go and I searched the Scriptures and I was looking back, and then I began to realize where the fulfillment was.

When they say we hear that God is with you, that was fulfilled in the book of Acts. That as it says, talks about what they will say, and of course, they believe that the 10 men of the nations, because that’s what it’s speaking about, the 10 men of the nations, would come to Israel and they want to take a hold of the wing of this Jewish man. When we go over to the book of Acts, my Bible is laid out a little differently here, but when we go over to the book of Acts chapter 2, we find out that in verse 36, I believe it is, that that’s exactly what happened. In fact, if you’re reading this, we find out that these Judeans, it says people translated as Jews, but it’s actually Judeans that are actually coming back to the land of Israel. They come from all the different nations where they were born. So we know therefore that these Judeans are only because their ancestry is from Palestine, but they’re coming back. Then they’re there on the day of Pentecost, and when the 120 that comes out of the upper room are staggering and they see the power of God that is going on, they’re pricked within their hearts. But what’s interesting is verse 36 says, therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified. So the house of Israel was actually returning not in the future, but 2,000 years ago according to the Scripture, and it also fits Romans 9. If it’s Isaiah, what is it? Chapter 10 verse 22, I believe it is, where it talks about how though Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant shall return. And this remnant here, I believe, are the ten of the nations that were prophesied in Zechariah that were, in this case, saying, we will go with you for we hear God is with you because they’re pricked in their heart. They want to know, what can we do?

Rick: The remnant that the prophets said would be, the prophets, the Jewish prophets in the Old Testament clearly forewarned that Israel would go into apostasy, into sin, rebellion, that God would judge the country of Israel, judge the Jewish people, but there would be a remnant. The remnant were the Jews who believed on the name of Jesus. And the population of Israel dwindled. It dwindled down to just a few thousand Jews at the beginning of the Book of Acts. And then the Gentiles were grafted into Israel, but they weren’t grafted into Judaism. They were grafted into Israel, which was believing on the name of Jesus. The Jews who rejected Jesus were cast out of Israel, and they are still outside of Israel. The only way that God will let them back into true Israel, not the state of Israel, but God’s Israel, the only way that those Jews can get back into Israel and be in right standing with God is to repent of their sins and believe on the name of Jesus Christ and be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Those are the requirements, and they are the same for every human on the planet.

Rabbi John Hagee teaches that the state of Israel is the gateway to Heaven’s blessings for Gentiles. As a Gentile, you can’t receive God’s blessings unless you go through the state of Israel. Now, you want to talk about replacement theology? They have replaced Jesus with the state of Israel! They replaced the Cross with the star of David. And I could go down the list of all the things that the Zionists have replaced. They created the real replacement theology. They replaced true Christianity with a fake churchyanity. But for him to stand there in a church and tell people, the state of Israel is your gateway to Heaven’s blessings. And what he’s teaching is that I, as a Gentile, am obligated to financially bless Jews if I want to be blessed by God. He’s teaching it!!!

Jana: That’s a Talmudic doctrine.

Rick: Yes, it’s Talmudic. He knows it’s Talmudic. And I suspect that John Hagee privately converted to Talmudic Judaism. We’ll find out when he passes away whether he gets a Talmudic burial in Israel. The man’s gone from Christianity. He’s gone. He long checked out of Christianity. He’s not in the Church anymore.

Steven: I don’t see how ministers can live with themselves, honestly, Rick. I really don’t. Because when you’re confronted with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, you’re confronted with this truth and you begin to wake up and recognize what’s going on. How can you live with yourself? I know ministers personally that suffer mentally from these things right now because I know that this is what they’re battling. They know what the truth of the Gospel is. And as you put it, it’s reverse replacement theology because what we believe in Jesus Christ is not replacing Israel. The entire church was all Jews in the beginning. So how can we be replacing them? Gentiles are only being added to it.

Rick: We want to study the Jewish roots. Jesus is the root, not Judaism! The Jews were the branches. Jesus is the root. And the Gentiles were grafted into the branches. But Jesus is the root.

Steven: You just said an important thing that I try to bring out to people all the time. We know that Jesus is the root of that tree. And when Paul gives the whole analogy in Romans 11 about Israel being in that tree originally, and then they’re cut out because of unbelief, people seem to just totally go right over that right there. That they weren’t grafted in to Christ, they were already in Him originally. But their unbelief is what caused them to be taken out. So this is nothing to do with replacement theology, but it goes right over the people’s heads.

Rick: Jesus Christ fulfilled all of God’s promises to Israel. He fulfilled all of them. There’s nothing left. There’s not one more thing God can do for the Jewish people. What can He do that’s greater than sacrificing His Son on a cross? Name something greater. God has done everything He’s going to do for the Jewish people. God has done everything He’s going to do for the entire human race. The ball is in our court. Obey. Believe on the name of Jesus. Repent of your sins. Be baptized. Whether you’re a Jew or a Gentile, the ground is level at the cross. We’re all sinners. There’s neither Jew nor Greek. We all have to go to the cross.

God is not going to do one more thing. He’s not building a Temple. A Temple would be an abomination. It would be blasphemous for God to build a Temple. Why? Are you saying that the blood of Jesus isn’t good enough anymore? That the blood of bulls and sheep has more power to atone for sins than the Son of God? Think about the blasphemy that these evangelical Zionists are telling people in churches that there’s going to be a third Temple! That’s blasphemy!!! Why would God do something like that? His Son’s blood is just as pure and holy and powerful today as it was 2,000 years ago when it ran down the cross at Calvary. God ripped the veil in the Temple. The earth shook the sky. It went black. The sun was darkened. Why? Because judgment was coming on Israel! And in 70 AD, He destroyed it! And now in our lifetime, the Zionists under the inspiration of Lucifer are seeking to rebuild that which God destroyed. And this thing, Zionism, is in direct opposition to the kingdom of God. And anybody who aligns himself with Zionism, you have made yourself an enemy of the living God. And you better repent and get out of it quickly.

God is doing a great new work in the Church. He’s shaking the Church right now. And He’s revealing the false doctrines. He’s revealing the deception. And He’s calling people to take a stand. He’s drawing a line. And you’ve got to choose which side you’re on. Are you on the side of Satan or are you on the side of Jesus Christ? You can’t mix the two. And it’s going to be costly. If you come out of Zionism, you’re going to pay a price. I’m paying a price. I’m being attacked and being smeared. My name is being vilified. Why? Because I reject Zionism. And I will pay that price. But my God will defend me. He’ll protect me. And I’m not going to fear what any human being threatens to do to me.

The Lord is opening eyes. He’s removing the blinders. And people are coming out of Zionism. They’re being delivered. And that is a good thing to happen. We love you very much.

Video of the interview